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    Fake T-pattern jacket

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    Fake T-pattern jacket  Empty Fake T-pattern jacket

    Post by P-E on Sat Apr 28, 2012 4:45 pm

    I found this auction on ebay :

    http://www.befr.ebay.be/itm/221011069368?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 (#221011069368). There're a few elements that let me think this jacket is not an original :

    - the color of buttons : the grey is too light, not dark enough

    - the color of the threat used for sewing : again, too light in comparison with the original T-pattern stuff I've

    - lack of label : removed to sell a good repro for a original ? Realy curious to see that the label with sizes was also removed...

    - the seller is a camo collector (if you see his feedbacks and other items he sells, no doubt he's !), but he titled the auction as "unknown? usmc urban camo experimental". This experimental camouflage is known by probably all the collectors of uniforms, so why there's no reference to 'T-pattern' or 'T-block' names ? Well, it's a commercial strategy ; as a buyer you think the seller doesn't know what he sells, and so it's probably a legit stuff.

    - branch tape never sewn on it ? I see no marks of an old sewn branch tape...

    The price is good for a reproduction, but I'ld avoid paying too many for it if you're interested...simply my opinion. I've too many doubt on this one !


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    Darktrooper
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    Post by Darktrooper on Sun Apr 29, 2012 12:21 pm

    I wouldn't say it was an outright fake, we'd have to know more about the jacket.

    It could be a Propper or other commercial manufacturers version, then someone (not accusing the seller) pulled the tags off. That would certainly explain the difference compared to your actual issued uniform.


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    Post by P-E on Sun Apr 29, 2012 1:12 pm

    This camouflage was used during only one week-end, and so it was not mass produced. It's not like other uniforms that were mass produced by many manufacturers. That's why there's only one manufacturer for each item of the set ;

    All original helmets cover were made by "Mt. Rogers Mh & MR Ser. BD"
    All original jackets were made by "Steps, Inc."
    All original trousers were made by "Goodwill industries of South Florida, Inc."
    all original PASGT-Vest cover were made by "Unicor, Washington, DC."

    I don't know how explain it, but for this camouflage, there's the issued stuff made by the manufacturer above, and the reproduction stuff that appeared later on the market for the general public (= commercial stuff, not issued, not official = copy). I mean there's no commercial stuff in T-pattern made for soldiers because this camouflage was simply never adopted. They tested it during one week-end in 1999 and that's all. Do you understand ?

    And because of the elements I gave you, and with comparison with ALL other T-pattern uniforms I saw online or in private collection, I'm 99% sure this jacket is a reproduction, a good one, but still a reproduction.

    Now, I don't want to accuse the seller of faking items, but he's more than probably a camo collector and then I serioulsy doubt he doesn't know this camo. I find realy curious he didn't mentionned the "t-pattern or T-block name" in the title or description because he knows it's an urban camo of the USMC (as said in his auction). And there're not tons of urban usmc uniforms....

    When you've a good reproduction item you want to sell, the best thing to do is remove the labels that permit to be sure it's a reproduction / commercial item, and finaly sell it as if you don't know what you sell. After that, if the buyer is not happy of the purchase, simply respond him "sorry nu refund, I didn't know it was a reproduction because this uniform was unknown for me as said in my auction". It's what we call in law an "information intentionaly hidden". You hide informations because you know that if the buyer had these informations in mind (label,...) that permit him to be sure of what he purchases, then he won't buy it, or not at this price.

    If you want this jacket, bid on it as if it was a reproduction, not an original. That's my friendly advice. Trust me, I do not project to bid on it, otherwise I won't post the link here and keep it for me moreover for the low starting price Laughing Wink

    Last time a helmet cover was sold on ebay, it was a good reproduction. I contacted the seller and give him my opinion on his helmet cover. He responded me simply "I think you're right, it's well a reproduction", but didn't mentionned this in the auction. The copy of the T-pattern helmet cover, without label inside (--> not shown on the pictures of the auction = information intentionaly hidden), was sold for $130...for a reproduction, that's realy realy expensive....I think that the buyer won't pay this price if he had known he purchased a reproduction.

    Just my 2 cents...

    P-E



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    "As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..." - Donald Rumsfeld (Camp Buehring, KU - Dec. 8, 2004)

    See my current collection of desert SSI HERE
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    Post by Philip on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:41 pm

    It's one of these:
    http://philipscamocollection.npage.at/gabon.html
    Just without the Gabon Army stamp...
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    Post by P-E on Sun Apr 29, 2012 3:47 pm

    But in Gabon uniforms, the label is always printed in it, isn't it ?


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    "As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..." - Donald Rumsfeld (Camp Buehring, KU - Dec. 8, 2004)

    See my current collection of desert SSI HERE
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    Post by Darktrooper on Sun Apr 29, 2012 5:08 pm

    Just throwing this out there, maybe the reason he didn't label it as a T-pattern is the seller isn't sure?

    Don't forget a fundamental truth about selling militaria on ebay. For it to sell and/ or people to look at it the following has to be in the title: USMC, SEAL, DEVGRU, RANGER, AIRBORNE, SPECIAL FORCES, DELTA


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    Post by P-E on Wed May 02, 2012 11:46 am

    Look at the auction now, and you'll understand why it's sometime better to forgot to mention a few informations....the current price of the jacket is $198 and it ends in just less than two days.

    And yes Darktrooper, I know realy well the keywords that are the most researched on ebay. If you check his title, he used the keywords "usmc", "urban", "experimental" and "camo" that are all very researched keywords.

    Just see his other auctions, no doubt he's a camo collector...Seller can't ignore this is the T-pattern / T-block name : he knows it's an USMC uniform, and he also knows this is an experimental urban camo. As you know, it doesn't exists tens urban experimental camouflage, moreover in the usmc...

    I'm just mad for the best bidder, because I'm 99% sure it's not an original USMC T-pattern jacket. Pretty sure the bidder are now bidding on it thinking this is a real ones... I already had two original jackets (still remains me one I keep preciously with the rest of the grouping)...If you take the time to compare the real ones and a repro, then you'll see the differences. That's just shocking, because a few weeks ago an original X-large T-pattern jacket was for sale on ebay, for a buy it now price of $250, and nobody bought it. So a reproduction for the same price, that's just shocking...


    _________________
    "As you know, you go to war with the Army you have. They're not the Army you might want or wish to have at a later time. You can have all the armor in the world on a tank and it can (still) be blown up..." - Donald Rumsfeld (Camp Buehring, KU - Dec. 8, 2004)

    See my current collection of desert SSI HERE
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    See my files in PDF on scribd.com HERE
    See my collection of jackets HERE

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