OEF/OIF BOARD

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    kriegsmodell
    kriegsmodell
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 1873
    Join date : 2010-03-20
    Location : Central Illinois

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by kriegsmodell on Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:19 pm

    These patches circulate around from time to time as theatre made in Iraq or Afghanistan but they are neither. The insignia is actually made in Turkey and is a fantasy item that was based on an actual 19th SFG(A) SOT-A patch. The real patch was made in Incrilik, Turkey circa 2002 by a team member of ODA-905. The original patch is shown as SFG-758 in US Special Forces Group Insignia (Post 1975) by Pugh, Perkowski, & Whistler. After producing the requested patch for the team, the patch maker proceeded to make a number of fantasy variations that are widely available and sold as original. Some dealers sell them as theatre made in Turkey for USSF serving in OIF or OEF. Or as noted above as made in Iraq or AStan. I purchased the patch below on another forum as a representative sample and am sharing here as information.

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Mvc-0021

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Mvc-0022

    Note that the fantasy patch pictured above is actually "mirror reversed" to the original pattern type. The beret is over the skull's right eye instead ohe correct left eye. The bomb burst pattern is reversed also. Even the Farsi script on the scrolls is backward. Same with the "signal swirls" coming from the ear areas of the skull. The Vietnam type crossed SOG knives are embellishments added for collectors. The quality of the embroidery in this piece should be noted as lacking; lots of off line or center stitching and loose threads. Very noticeable as an example in the area of the crossed knives. Also note the general lack of good detail. I also suspect this example was sewn in DCU or dessert colors in an effort to lure the prospective buyers into thinking it was an OEF or OIF period piece of theatre insignia. If any members have additional information or thoughts to the contrary please feel free to post here .......


    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
    Mercenary25
    Mercenary25
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 3719
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Age : 32

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Mercenary25 on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:07 am

    Very interestingly, the design is very similar to Vietnam SOG patch. Thanks for a head up.
    ladrang
    ladrang
    2nd Lieutenant
    2nd Lieutenant

    Posts : 1924
    Join date : 2011-01-24
    Location : Montreal, Qc, Canada

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by ladrang on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:13 am

    Thanks for the information
    kriegsmodell
    kriegsmodell
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 1873
    Join date : 2010-03-20
    Location : Central Illinois

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by kriegsmodell on Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:17 pm

    Case in point - Here is an example currently for sale on a certain internet auction site. It is listed as a US Army Special Forces Afghanistan Patch. Note the similarities between this patch and the example I posted earlier. One of the almost limitless designs made by the same folks in Turkey. Again a pure fantasy piece of insignia.

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Screen10

    Caveat Emptor my friends!!



    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
    ladrang
    ladrang
    2nd Lieutenant
    2nd Lieutenant

    Posts : 1924
    Join date : 2011-01-24
    Location : Montreal, Qc, Canada

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by ladrang on Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:33 am

    Thanks for your advices Wink
    avatar
    downboy
    Chief Corporal
    Chief Corporal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2010-05-26
    Location : oceania

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by downboy on Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:54 am

    Unfortunately it`s cases like these that I hesitate to post some of my patches.
    kriegsmodell
    kriegsmodell
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 1873
    Join date : 2010-03-20
    Location : Central Illinois

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by kriegsmodell on Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:10 am



    Downboy, I would wager that almost every collector here has purchased fake, reproduction, fantasy, or at the very least some variety of "humped-up" piece of militaria. Be it a patch, a uniform, field gear, you name it. I know that I certainly have. There is no shame in that. What's important is that we learn from our mistakes. If posting something here helps another collector, that's what it's all about. Knowledge is power and forums like OEF/OIF are a perfect place to share what information you may have that can help others. My thoughts only ......



    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
    avatar
    downboy
    Chief Corporal
    Chief Corporal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2010-05-26
    Location : oceania

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by downboy on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:10 pm

    kriegsmodell wrote:

    Downboy, I would wager that almost every collector here has purchased fake, reproduction, fantasy, or at the very least some variety of "humped-up" piece of militaria. Be it a patch, a uniform, field gear, you name it. I know that I certainly have. There is no shame in that. What's important is that we learn from our mistakes. If posting something here helps another collector, that's what it's all about. Knowledge is power and forums like OEF/OIF are a perfect place to share what information you may have that can help others. My thoughts only ......

    Sorry...I did`nt make myself clear.My patches are genuine.My issue is the moment I post them some commercial and "tribute" minded individuals would start making copies of them thus muddling our hobby with more fantasy and fake "collectibles".
    Thus my dilemma.I know I`m not the only one in this boat.
    kriegsmodell
    kriegsmodell
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 1873
    Join date : 2010-03-20
    Location : Central Illinois

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by kriegsmodell on Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:56 pm


    Ahh, the classic dilemma. I am with you now. And yes, I struggle with that one also. I think a lot of our friends here do as well. As soon as it gets seen it gets faked. Agreed ......


    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
    zvez
    zvez
    Master Corporal
    Master Corporal

    Posts : 242
    Join date : 2010-01-18
    Location : georgia

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by zvez on Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:17 pm

    Well one thing you can do to make it harder is either reduce or enlarge the scale of the image of the patch you post. Thus size won't be right for a legitimate one, Harry Pugh often blurs certain key details of a patch to make it tough.

    That said, in this day and age no real guarantee of authenticity in many cases now, provenance helps but even that's not foolproof.

    Chris

    downboy wrote:
    kriegsmodell wrote:

    Downboy, I would wager that almost every collector here has purchased fake, reproduction, fantasy, or at the very least some variety of "humped-up" piece of militaria. Be it a patch, a uniform, field gear, you name it. I know that I certainly have. There is no shame in that. What's important is that we learn from our mistakes. If posting something here helps another collector, that's what it's all about. Knowledge is power and forums like OEF/OIF are a perfect place to share what information you may have that can help others. My thoughts only ......

    Sorry...I did`nt make myself clear.My patches are genuine.My issue is the moment I post them some commercial and "tribute" minded individuals would start making copies of them thus muddling our hobby with more fantasy and fake "collectibles".
    Thus my dilemma.I know I`m not the only one in this boat.
    Nkomo
    Nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4773
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Nkomo on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:34 pm

    I am not much of a collector of patches that aren't attached to a uniform, but do have a few nice patches I've collected over the years. One patch in particular was given to me by a former SF soldier who made me promise to never post it online because he didn't want it to be reproduced, as there were only a handful made in theater and were presented to the soldiers after their deployment was over. Oddly enough, he mentioned two prominent patch collectors by name who he really didn't want them to get their hands on this particular patch. That being said, please do not PM me asking who these collectors are, as I will not impugn a person's reputation on heresay.

    I can understand the hesitancy of some collectors to post pictures of patches. uniforms, etc. There are some unscrupulous people out there who have no qualms about flooding the collecting market with fakes. Look at the plethora of fake SOG patches on Ebay that are coming out of Vietnam. It is just a matter of time until that happens to the OEF/OIF collector. Very sad.
    kriegsmodell
    kriegsmodell
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 1873
    Join date : 2010-03-20
    Location : Central Illinois

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by kriegsmodell on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:54 pm

    nkomo wrote: I can understand the hesitancy of some collectors to post pictures of patches. uniforms, etc. There are some unscrupulous people out there who have no qualms about flooding the collecting market with fakes. Look at the plethora of fake SOG patches on Ebay that are coming out of Vietnam. It is just a matter of time until that happens to the OEF/OIF collector. Very sad.


    Arch et al,

    I agree with what you have said but will argue that it ALREADY HAS HAPPENED to the OEF/OIF collector. At least in the area of US Army Special Forces. There are already nearly as many reproduction OEF/OIF patches on eBay as there are Vietnam War patches for USSF. There are at least three eBay dealers that come readily to mind that sell nothing but reproduction and fantasy OEF/OIF USSF patches. This part of our hobby is being ruined at a very quick pace. Again, my thoughts only .....



    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
    Nkomo
    Nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4773
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Nkomo on Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:57 pm

    kriegsmodell wrote:
    nkomo wrote: I can understand the hesitancy of some collectors to post pictures of patches. uniforms, etc. There are some unscrupulous people out there who have no qualms about flooding the collecting market with fakes. Look at the plethora of fake SOG patches on Ebay that are coming out of Vietnam. It is just a matter of time until that happens to the OEF/OIF collector. Very sad.


    Arch et al,

    I agree with what you have said but will argue that it ALREADY HAS HAPPENED to the OEF/OIF collector. At least in the area of US Army Special Forces. There are already nearly as many reproduction OEF/OIF patches on eBay as there are Vietnam War patches for USSF. There are at least three eBay dealers that come readily to mind that sell nothing but reproduction and fantasy OEF/OIF USSF patches. This part of our hobby is being ruined at a very quick pace. Again, my thoughts only .....

    You are dead on with your assessment, Lance. Very sad.
    aussie digger
    aussie digger
    MODERATOR
    MODERATOR

    Posts : 1414
    Join date : 2011-08-14
    Location : Midwest

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by aussie digger on Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:46 pm

    I agree, this is also something i struggle with. I dont post allot of aussie SF insignia for this exact reason which may help slow the fakers but at the same time hurts the collecting community which I hate but really cant see any other option. By showing these items to educate fellow collectors we are also allowing the fakers to create near perfect reproductions.

    I know its been done to death but the other serious problem is the airsoft community, iv mainly noticed this with SF items but as soon as anything appears in the media or even in photos on the DOD website good reproductions are on the market within a short time and the other problem with airsoft is that theres the potential for these to come back onto the market later as well worn examples. Or for Arch possibly even attatched to a uniform Mad

    And one other thing iv only just encountered, Allot of patches arnt readily available through the military system so what about when soldiers start purchasing from airsoft websites to replace deficiencies from the military system? As crazy as this sounds i know this to have happened.

    OIF/OEF did not take very long to become a minefield like any other militaria field.

    Cheers
    Jason
    Nkomo
    Nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4773
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Nkomo on Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:58 pm

    I know that a lot of collectors of WW2 or Vietnam will tell collectors to buy reference books and study to keep from making mistakes. Ummmmm.....I can think of two or three reference books that are out there for OEF/OIF collectors. It makes it hard on us, as we have no guides to go by. We have to learn the hard way and right now, we have to protect ourselves from fakes.

    This is a great thread, Lance. I appreciate all the comments and discussion from our members.
    aussie digger
    aussie digger
    MODERATOR
    MODERATOR

    Posts : 1414
    Join date : 2011-08-14
    Location : Midwest

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by aussie digger on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:08 am

    Then theres also the problem that as soon as a reference book comes out those items can be highly acurately reproduced leaving us with a "textbook" reproduction
    Nkomo
    Nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4773
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Nkomo on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:17 am

    Very true. Double edged sword isn't it?
    aussie digger
    aussie digger
    MODERATOR
    MODERATOR

    Posts : 1414
    Join date : 2011-08-14
    Location : Midwest

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by aussie digger on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:24 am

    Yes and theres really no way around it. I believe that forums such as this will be the number 1 reference in the future. Collector based forums like this are able to identify and warn of new developments as they arise whereas referance books have the potential to be outdated within weeks of their being printed.

    This isnt just true of OIF/OEF, its even the case for WW2 and all those other militaria fields. Also look at the amount of fake items littered throughout WW2 militaria referance books!
    avatar
    downboy
    Chief Corporal
    Chief Corporal

    Posts : 120
    Join date : 2010-05-26
    Location : oceania

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by downboy on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:53 am

    nkomo wrote: I am not much of a collector of patches that aren't attached to a uniform, but do have a few nice patches I've collected over the years. One patch in particular was given to me by a former SF soldier who made me promise to never post it online because he didn't want it to be reproduced, as there were only a handful made in theater and were presented to the soldiers after their deployment was over. Oddly enough, he mentioned two prominent patch collectors by name who he really didn't want them to get their hands on this particular patch. That being said, please do not PM me asking who these collectors are, as I will not impugn a person's reputation on heresay.

    I can understand the hesitancy of some collectors to post pictures of patches. uniforms, etc. There are some unscrupulous people out there who have no qualms about flooding the collecting market with fakes. Look at the plethora of fake SOG patches on Ebay that are coming out of Vietnam. It is just a matter of time until that happens to the OEF/OIF collector. Very sad.
    Agree %100...SOF deployment or platoon patches are very limited and not mass produced and are designed by the troops themselves.It has always been a privilege to get access to these patches hence the guarded hesitation in posting them in a public forum.
    Just a few months back a photo of a Victoria Cross SASR awardee came out of the net and voila...a repro of his SASR troop patch came out of the ebay woodworks.
    Nkomo
    Nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4773
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Nkomo on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:17 am

    downboy wrote:
    nkomo wrote: I am not much of a collector of patches that aren't attached to a uniform, but do have a few nice patches I've collected over the years. One patch in particular was given to me by a former SF soldier who made me promise to never post it online because he didn't want it to be reproduced, as there were only a handful made in theater and were presented to the soldiers after their deployment was over. Oddly enough, he mentioned two prominent patch collectors by name who he really didn't want them to get their hands on this particular patch. That being said, please do not PM me asking who these collectors are, as I will not impugn a person's reputation on heresay.

    I can understand the hesitancy of some collectors to post pictures of patches. uniforms, etc. There are some unscrupulous people out there who have no qualms about flooding the collecting market with fakes. Look at the plethora of fake SOG patches on Ebay that are coming out of Vietnam. It is just a matter of time until that happens to the OEF/OIF collector. Very sad.
    Agree %100...SOF deployment or platoon patches are very limited and not mass produced and are designed by the troops themselves.It has always been a privilege to get access to these patches hence the guarded hesitation in posting them in a public forum.
    Just a few months back a photo of a Victoria Cross SASR awardee came out of the net and voila...a repro of his SASR troop patch came out of the ebay woodworks.

    I would bet that a lot of our members are holding back from posting rare items for fear of their items being copied by fakers. I know that I have held back from posting an amazing Blackwater PSD grouping due to fear of fakers.
    cplcustard
    cplcustard
    Corporal
    Corporal

    Posts : 58
    Join date : 2011-12-07
    Age : 26
    Location : Australia

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by cplcustard on Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:17 am

    Hmm i suddenly don't feel so good about posting my photo of D Coy commando patch pale
    kriegsmodell
    kriegsmodell
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 1873
    Join date : 2010-03-20
    Location : Central Illinois

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by kriegsmodell on Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:10 am

    nkomo wrote: I know that a lot of collectors of WW2 or Vietnam will tell collectors to buy reference books and study to keep from making mistakes. Ummmmm.....I can think of two or three reference books that are out there for OEF/OIF collectors. It makes it hard on us, as we have no guides to go by. We have to learn the hard way and right now, we have to protect ourselves from fakes.


    For USSF collectors I recommend US Special Forces Group Insignia (Post 1975) by Harry Pugh, Gary Perkowski, and Len Whistler. The book was published in 2004 so it has a bit of GWOT OEF/OIF information. It is a good reference and very affordable.

    For world wide Airborne and Special Operations Forces nothing beats membership in the Parachutist and Special Force Insignia Collector Group. Membership cost is $26 USA/Canada and $40 International. The membership fees primarily fund the groups printed journal 'Chutes and Daggers. The journal is published four times per year with each issue at around 75 pages. The C&D's journal illustrates thousands of special operations insignia, wings, certificates, etc. The journal also illustrates the fakes and suspect patches. Lastly there are articles on operations, SOF history, book reviews and more. It is well worth the money. I'm plugging this as a member only. I have no other association with C&D. Sadly, the miscreants that are making the reproduction patches get a lot of their designs from C&D also.

    If you are interested in either the book or membership in the Parachutist and Special Force Insignia Collector Group contact Harry Pugh at the address below:

    Harry Pugh
    P.O. Box 7201
    Arlington, Virginia 22207-7201

    Or PM me and I will give you an email address. I'm not going to post it here for the 'bots to find.

    In closing I guess i'm trying to say a couple of things - one, there is reference material out there we just have to look for it; secondly, "we" are part of the problem ..... There are experts here on this forum that post every day. I'm certainly not including myself, but this forum is blessed to have walking, talking, and posting experts here on nearly all facets of these GWOT topics. Knowledge may be power, but there is no power in knowledge unless it is shared. Which brings me to the last point - the "dilemma". Do you post pictures of a rare piece of insignia, a modified top, or other item even knowing that the scum bag fakers who are ruining the hobby are going to reproduce same .........? I say YES!! And here is why. With the rare exception, such as described by Arch above, I say YES. Does it help the fakers? Yes, of course; but more importantly it helps our fellow collectors! Does it help a new collector who sees something here and thinks "wow, I jus saw that patch at the surplus shop"! That is the piece that is important to me. And I have tried to do just that by posting here some very rare theatre made SOF patches and even some Blackwater and contracting pieces. If the knowledge and information shared here helps other collectors and supports our passion for collecting then I consider what the fakers do with it to be collateral damage. I'm sure that not everyone shares this viewpoint but I am comfortable with it and think there is value in looking at both sides of the issue.

    End rant, off the soap box, and 10-8 - my thoughts only ....



    Last edited by kriegsmodell on Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total


    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
    aussie digger
    aussie digger
    MODERATOR
    MODERATOR

    Posts : 1414
    Join date : 2011-08-14
    Location : Midwest

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by aussie digger on Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:22 am

    Hi mate,

    Thank you for the references and also thanks for sharing your opinion. You bring up some valid points. This is something im still struggling with myself.
    Nkomo
    Nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4773
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Nkomo on Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:31 pm

    Thanks for the information, Lance. I didn't know about those particular references. May be something I need to look into a bit later.

    Sponsored content

    Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch Empty Re: Turkish Made Special Forces or SOF Fantasy Patch

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:08 am