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A modified DCU...

3_colors: Private First Class; Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-03-19
Location : France

Post n°1

A modified DCU...

by 3_colors Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:15 am

Hi,

I found last month this modified DCU (with velcro for flags on the sleeve pockets and IR squares)

There are shadows of collar ranks, name and army tapes but they have been removed... Sad

Sad

It seems that no unit patch was sewed on the jacket.

I'm not used to buy unnamed jackets and restore this.. However, it is my first modified DCU and I want to save "it".

Could you help me to define what kind of units would have worn such a modified jacket ? (Army, SF, Navy,... ?)

Regards,

Bertrand

Sorry again for the bad quality, but I only have my cell phone this month...

A modified DCU... Photo0430-1

A modified DCU... Photo0430-1

Nkomo: ADMIN; Posts : 4797
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : USA

Post n°2

Re: A modified DCU...

by Nkomo Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:57 am

Ahhhhhh......the modified DCU! I have had a love affair with the modified uniform since 1998. Before 9-11 and the start of the wars in A-Stan and Iraq, you could guarantee that all modified uniforms were Special Forces used. That changed very quickly after the wars started. Soldiers learned quickly that modifying their uniform, in this case the DCU, was effective in combat environments. Furthermore, with the Interceptor vests, the pockets on the front of the jacket were virtually useless. The placement of pockets on the sleeves was a necessity. It allowed the soldier to have access to pockets that would normally be covered by bulky body armror. Shops around the bases started tailoring jackets for soldiers who were deploying overseas. Many soldiers had their DCU's modified. Even soldiers who weren't front-line troops had their uniforms modified. Was it against regulations? Depended on what unit you were serving with. Remember, uniform regulations are relaxed somewhat during war.

As to who would have used this jacket.....it would most likely be the Army. The Marines did modify their DCU's but this was on a relatively small scale compared to the US Army. The Air Force Special Operations guys also modified their DCU's on a small scale. The Navy Special Operations guys did as well.

That being said, the Army guys modified their jackets more than anyone else did. I have seen numerous units that modified their jackets to include the following: 82nd ABN, 173rd ABN, Rangers, 101st ABN, US Forces-Iraq, 11th ACR, 3rd ACR, 1st Cav, 525th Battlefield Surveillance Brigade, 25th ID, 2nd ID, etc. That is just to name a few. I'm sure it was done by more units than that, but the ones listed above are ones I have seen in pictures or are examples I personally own.

The one you have pictured could be any of the above. Question....does the rank appear to be a Sgt. or higher? If so, I'd bet it would be SF, especially seeing the abscence of SSI. If you want to restore this piece, you need to match up the rank size. Then you need to sew back on a tan US ARMY tape on the left side. As far as a name tape goes.....not sure what to tell you about that one.

What you have is a classic example of a modified DCU. Very nice score and looking forward to seeing how you restore this one. If you have any other questions...feel free to ask.

3_colors: Private First Class; Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-03-19
Location : France

Post n°3

Re: A modified DCU...

by 3_colors Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:31 am

What a bright statement of the facts !!!

I'm very honored to discuss with specialist like you !

I'm going to define the exact rank of the ex-owner.

Thanks a lot.

PS : I will ask a seamstress to sew the "new" tapes on.

Mercenary25

Mercenary25: ADMIN; Posts : 3727
Join date : 2010-01-09
Age : 35

Post n°4

Re: A modified DCU...

by Mercenary25 Sun Mar 21, 2010 11:53 am

I'll have to echo Arch's comment. He is a modified gear guru. Also, I'll add some more that may be helpful. Your modified DCU is definitely Special Operations one. Some regular Army guys do modify their DCUs (During the period of CU/CCU being tested, not everyone get issued those experimental combat uniforms so some decided to modify to make them look similar. Some units decided that the modified DCUs are their official issue (173rd for instance). However for very short period before ACUs became widely issued. The regular Army modified DCUs have SSI because it is part of regulation. Now, your modified DCU doesn't have any sign that SSI were on it so it is Special Operations one because they rarely used SSI in field. As far I'm concerned, it could be Navy Seals, Para Recuse, Special Forces, etc... Hard to say which specific one. Unless you find information about the ex-owner, it would be helpful!

bond007a1: ADMIN; Posts : 578
Join date : 2010-01-10

Post n°5

Re: A modified DCU...

by bond007a1 Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:25 pm

And I will yet add some additional details, One note is that the regular Army guys didn't necessarily only modify their jackets because of the CCU/CU. Some of them did, But there were quite a few who modified them due to the fact that alot of the regular units had special forces teams attached or working side by side them, so they got to see modified uniforms "in action", where in previous wars/operations special forces were generally on their own and doing their own thing. Iraq & Afghanistan saw huge amounts of special forces out & about, more so than any previous conflict. So there are several reasons why regular guys modified their jackets.

Also, generally speaking, Air Force modified jackets have slanted upper chest pockets. Now this is not to say that they all do, but out of my 6 Air Force special forces jackets 5 of them have slanted upper chest pockets & the 6th does not have any pockets on the chest at all. So generally anytime you see a modified jacket with slanted upper chest pockets, and there is NO other insignia etc, it is a safe bet to assume that it was Air Force used/modified. Also none of my 5 or 6 Army or Navy modified jackets have the slanted upper pockets. I have a knack for finding Air Force SF stuff, so that is what I collect more than Army or Navy.

hope these additional details help you some Very Happy

Very Happy

Steven

3_colors: Private First Class; Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-03-19
Location : France

Post n°6

Re: A modified DCU...

by 3_colors Sun Mar 21, 2010 12:36 pm

Thanks, Mercenary25 and Bond007a1! You're very helpfull ! It's hard for me to find my way around this Modified DCU's Jungle !!

Additional questions Embarassed

Embarassed

:

The fact that there are shadows of name and army/usaf/navy tapes is compatible with the SF possibility ?

I found a pair of PFC Collar Rank in my stuff : I presume that this rank level is too low for a SF member ? Or is it ok ?

Regards

bond007a1: ADMIN; Posts : 578
Join date : 2010-01-10

Post n°7

Re: A modified DCU...

by bond007a1 Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

as far as the shadows...perfectly fine...
Here is a Air Force SF guy who wore this in Operation Anaconda...he was one of those calling in bombing runs...I have editied out his name as he is still active...

A modified DCU... USAFCCT1cEDITED

A modified DCU... USAFCCT1cEDITED

here is a Army Ranger jacket

A modified DCU... Usrangerjacket1b

A modified DCU... Usrangerjacket1b

another Army SF one...

A modified DCU... UsSFjacket1b

A modified DCU... UsSFjacket1b

So YES...more than likely SF..

Steven

Mercenary25

Mercenary25: ADMIN; Posts : 3727
Join date : 2010-01-09
Age : 35

Post n°8

Re: A modified DCU...

by Mercenary25 Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:13 pm

bond007a1 wrote:And I will yet add some additional details, One note is that the regular Army guys didn't necessarily only modify their jackets because of the CCU/CU. Some of them did, But there were quite a few who modified them due to the fact that alot of the regular units had special forces teams attached or working side by side them, so they got to see modified uniforms "in action", where in previous wars/operations special forces were generally on their own and doing their own thing. Iraq & Afghanistan saw huge amounts of special forces out & about, more so than any previous conflict. So there are several reasons why regular guys modified their jackets.

I stand corrected. I fail to mention that detail. Smile

Smile

3_colors, personally I would leave it as it is unless I find out about this person, I would restore it. I wouldn't put on made up rank and name. Just a thought.

Mercenary25

Mercenary25: ADMIN; Posts : 3727
Join date : 2010-01-09
Age : 35

Post n°9

Re: A modified DCU...

by Mercenary25 Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:15 pm

Also, if you take a look in modified gear and uniforms section, you could learn a lot!

3_colors: Private First Class; Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-03-19
Location : France

Post n°10

Re: A modified DCU...

by 3_colors Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:23 pm

Hi all,

Very nice jackets, Steven Shocked

Shocked

Shocked

You have an INCREDIBLE collection cheers

cheers

Thanks for the advises, Mercenary25 : I think that I won't touch this jacket - I have probably no chance to find out about the owner...

Have a good day,

Bertrand Wink

Wink

Mercenary25

Mercenary25: ADMIN; Posts : 3727
Join date : 2010-01-09
Age : 35

Post n°11

Re: A modified DCU...

by Mercenary25 Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:26 pm

3_colors wrote:Hi all,

Very nice jackets, Steven You have an INCREDIBLE collection

Thanks for the advises, Mercenary25 : I think that I won't touch this jacket - I have probably no chance to find out about the owner...

Have a good day,

Bertrand

Either way, you have a nice modified DCU! I assume it is your first one? It gets addictive after the first one or two.

3_colors: Private First Class; Posts : 33
Join date : 2010-03-19
Location : France

Post n°12

Re: A modified DCU...

by 3_colors Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:33 pm

Yep, that's my first one and probably the only one, because I prefer "conventionnal" DCU jackets :p

But I have to admit that modified DCU's are a exciting subject for collectors Smile

Smile

Regards,

bertrand

Nkomo: ADMIN; Posts : 4797
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : USA

Post n°13

Re: A modified DCU...

by Nkomo Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:03 pm

Modified DCU's are quite the enigma. Like I said before, pre 9-11 you could guarantee that all the modified jackets you found were SF used. After 9-11, it changed. I do believe your jacket is Special Forces. As to which branch of service....I'm still betting Army.

Not all unpatched modified DCU's are guaranteed to be SF used. I have several in my collection that are Regular Army used and have no SSI. It is uncommon, but it does happen occasionally. That being said, the unpatched reg Army DCU's I have do NOT have velcro patches on the sleeve like yours.

If you can find out the rank...replace it. Replace the US Army tape. Name tape....leave it alone. Many times, SF guys would remove rank and name tapes while on operations. This was especially true in early OEF.

If you are interested, here is a link to a modified jacket thread I started on USMF awhile back. This showcases a very small portion of my modified jackets.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=21963&hl=modified+jacket

Nkomo: ADMIN; Posts : 4797
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : USA

Post n°14

Re: A modified DCU...

by Nkomo Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:07 pm

3_colors wrote:Thanks, Mercenary25 and Bond007a1! You're very helpfull ! It's hard for me to find my way around this Modified DCU's Jungle !!

Additional questions :

The fact that there are shadows of name and army/usaf/navy tapes is compatible with the SF possibility ?

I found a pair of PFC Collar Rank in my stuff : I presume that this rank level is too low for a SF member ? Or is it ok ?

Regards

Rank for a US Army Special Forces operator needs to be a Sgt. rank or above.
Name tape and US Army tape are certainly compatible with SF use.

Nkomo: ADMIN; Posts : 4797
Join date : 2010-01-09
Location : USA

Post n°15

Re: A modified DCU...

by Nkomo Sun Mar 21, 2010 2:09 pm

3_colors wrote:Hi all,

Very nice jackets, Steven You have an INCREDIBLE collection

Thanks for the advises, Mercenary25 : I think that I won't touch this jacket - I have probably no chance to find out about the owner...

Have a good day,

Bertrand

Finding the former owner will be darn near impossible due to how SF guys operate. A job necessity for them.

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Post n°16

Re: A modified DCU...

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