Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Share

    Ben,C
    Chief Master Corporal
    Chief Master Corporal

    Posts : 315
    Join date : 2015-03-02
    Location : Hope Mills NC

    Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by Ben,C on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:49 am

    alright so I don't know about the rest of you but I have been looking at stuff by categorizing it in 4 categories.

    1 issue items made specifically for DOD. like issue uniforms, helmets, MOLLE II, FILBE and other things of that nature used by most conventional forces

    2 items made with DOD or more specifically SOF in mind but were also available to the general public with some differences or later in production. a lot of items used by special operations forces like SF, NSW, MARSOC, AFSOC that are made by eagle, lbt, paraclete, aba and others fall into this category for me

    3 items made for military and the civilian market that are known to have been used but were available to the public during the entire or most of the production with no real difference between the items that DOD or SOF teams/units/groups ect bought and the items sold to everyone else. a lot of Spec ops, tactical tailor and Blackhawk gear falls into this category for me

    4 fakes, airsoft / milsim junk and "tacticool" items that were made to cash in on that market. stuff made by LBT under the brand name LBX, items made by flyye, semapo, toy soldier, condor and the rest of the long list of overseas made or mostly poorly made knockoffs you never see anyone but the backyard boys out of Ft couch use while they sling plastic at each other.

    basically that's how I categorized stuff for a long time but I have noticed some items out of category 4 being used by SOF and regular forces. on one hand I find it disturbing as most of this stuff is absolute junk and when you see it come back from being used down range its falling apart and ready to be tossed in the trash. its scary to think that someone actually relied on this stuff and what may happen because of it. I mean its not a huge deal if a pouch fails but some of these companies make safety gear like personal retention lanyards and rigger belts and what if your out in the middle of nowhere and your plate carrier falls apart? I remember when I was in the Army buying a set of cheap boots and having them fall apart during a ruck march. lucky for me a extra set of boots was part of the pack list but I don't know anyone that packs a spare plate carrier around with them. from a collectors point of view its not much better for reasons that I am sure are obvious.

    well that's my take, what is are your thoughts on this?
    avatar
    RedLegGI
    MODERATOR
    MODERATOR

    Posts : 770
    Join date : 2010-07-22
    Location : Ohio

    Re: Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by RedLegGI on Thu Jun 02, 2016 2:44 am

    I think the categories fit fairly well for most things.


    I've got a few buddies in 3rd group on A teams who have told me that they will get Airsoft stuff and use it. Their rational is that it is cheaper and sometimes *better* than the gear they've gotten issued. Kind of the whole "if it works, it works" mentality which I understand.

    If they want gear they have 2 general options. First they can as their unit to put in an order for it and hope the funding is approved etc. Second they can go as a group an make a mass buy, saving some cash or on their own. I think these activities lead to some bleeding between 3-4 as well.
    avatar
    nkomo
    ADMIN
    ADMIN

    Posts : 4483
    Join date : 2010-01-09
    Location : USA

    Re: Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by nkomo on Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:30 pm

    I concur with both of your assessments.
    avatar
    Bagman6
    MODERATOR
    MODERATOR

    Posts : 507
    Join date : 2015-04-15
    Location : America

    Re: Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by Bagman6 on Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:32 pm

    I think that's a good way to break it down.


    _________________
    Semper Fi
    Jeff
    avatar
    Static line
    Chief Corporal
    Chief Corporal

    Posts : 163
    Join date : 2014-04-19
    Location : USA

    Re: Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by Static line on Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:57 pm

    Most combat arms guys, to include SOF 'specialty' dudes, are not Gun or Gear people.
    They typically used what is issued, without second thought. Largely because it was what they signed for and were given, it was free, and it is what their leadership uses. It's just nylon. It is pretty rare that guys actually understand what makes good gear good; threat count, stitch quality, material selection, structural design usually matter less to the end user than fit, weight, and ease of use..

    Sometimes condor/airsoft quality stuff gets used because a guy likes the design, and just doesn't understand good vs bad gear.. and their leaders don't care or don't recognize the faults.

    To add to Ben C's note about gear coming back from deployments looking thrashed.. that is the expectation anyways. Most gear is also disposable stuff; especially 'nylon' gear and clothing. Its not uncommon to draw brand new kit on each successive deployment. It doesn't matter is a plate carrier can last years of use if you get a new one when new pots of money get activated for oconus trips (or upon assignment to new units). Old gear gets turned into training kit, or becomes a spare. The monetary investment and pride of ownership doesn't really exist at the issued level. Its just nylon, and if it gets thrashed then no big deal, you draw a new one from supply. It really is that simple, firearms and vehicles aren't treated much different either.


    filo1712
    Private First Class
    Private First Class

    Posts : 26
    Join date : 2010-11-24
    Location : Italy

    Re: Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by filo1712 on Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:46 pm

    Ben,i find your distinctions quite precise and they throw me a little bit of frustration about collecting this kind of (otherwise)very nice and interesting items.I am sure you remember I have already posted my doubts in this same Forum.
    the fact that professionals too could and can use softair/commercial  items and after deployment these items get into the collecting circuit thus making almost impossible to differentiate the "real" things from Airsoft/reenactors items casts a shadow of doubt on some purchases of items belonging to the 3rd and 4th sections.what is then that makes the difference?an item you can directly and personally obtian from a veteran?the reputation of a seller you have never met in person who "guarantee" that the item come froma reliable source whose name quite often cannot be revelaed due to some quite understandable reason of privacy for the operator that maybe is till in service?
    Last but not least,since with a short search in internet it is not difficult to see how many business opportunities there are in the world with these items who can guarantee that an "enterprising" person will start to pour in the market items guaranteed as original by his own word since he (maybe sometimes without reason) claims he was a member of some elite corp or,without doing any crime he just claims he has the "right" connection with this rather elusive and discreet military personnel?
    I see on E@@Y and not only there big bucks being asked for vests,pouches and so on,but then again who can guarantee me the item is or has been worn/used by an operator?
    i am not a first hand collector,it's almost 35 years I enjoy myself with this great hobby and passion.I went through some very dangerous (for the finances) and hazardous field of collecting (e.g. TR militaria and VN war era patches)but then again although very difficult it was possible to single out good things from the bad one with a lot of study,talk with other collectors and so on,but here wow! and when I hear a friend of mine telling me that he paied for a LBT6094A vest in AOR camo pattern something around USD 1.400 (not having this vest a solid provenance and not being the vest one of the first few model)) I cannot but think it's way too exagerated but then again anyone is free to choose his/her own demons to follow.
    One quite old and wise rule of thumb I was thought was "buy the piece not the story",but sometimes a piece without the right story or connection to that something that interests and fascinates us collectors it has not the same "taste" as an anonymous but original item.
    sorry if i have been a little too verbose.....

    Sponsored content

    Re: Fake Stuff Being Used, What do you guys think of this?

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:08 pm