Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

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    kriegsmodell
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    Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by kriegsmodell on Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:07 am



    This is an ebay pick-up from a few months ago that I wanted to post here and finally made the time. From what I have been told there were a couple of O2 members here that were watching this auction. I was really fortunate and happy to add this piece to my collection. I am always looking for Al Qaeda, Haqanni, Taliban, and other insurgent and enemy forces items. This is an improvised combat vest captured from a Taliban fighter during 2007 in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. The captured vest is fashioned from a formal suit coat vest with multiple additional modifications. The front and side areas of the garment have been opened at the seams and a stiff blue in color canvas material has been inserted and sewn into place. Note the very crude stitching to the front areas of the vest where the material was re-sewn. This helps the vest to hang properly and assists in allowing access to the numerous added and modified pockets of the garment. Most of the pockets have zippers and they have been added to the exterior and interior of the vest.. The exterior of the vest has four pockets; two original larger slip pockets (lower) and two added zippered pockets (upper). The interior of the vest has been modified by adding five pockets, all zippered. It is actually very well made with all of the modified and augmented pockets fully lined in several varieties of scrap cloth. The original front buttons are retained but their matching holes were removed in the modification process. The back side of the vest is essentially unmodified, fashioned from the original thin pin stripe pattern fabric and still retaining the adjusting belt strap. There is a field repaired tear to the upper reverse side of the vest. The inside of the vest has the aforementioned additional pockets as well as an added color Sergeant's rank chevron which appears to be US military. Intriguing to find this US insignia on a piece of enemy uniform kit. The chevron has been hand sewn to the garment but does not go through the pocket lining. In other words, it was affixed while the vest was being assembled/modified and concurrent with the lining and stiffening material being added. The interior of the vest also contains the original manufacturers information "Made in for All Season Dormel England of Super Cashmere Wool." The vest was being sold by a third party on behalf of the veteran and included a 3x5 index card with the annotation "Taliban NCO Vest Captured in Musa Qalah, Helmand Province, Afghanistan 2007." Numerous US military units were involved in operations in this area during that period so I am still researching and hoping to gather further details from the seller. Numerous photographs of the vest are attached below. I have also attached several open source photographs of Taliban fighters wearing similar modified vests.





    Obverse and reverse views with the vest on a clothing hanger:





    Views of the added and modified pockets (exterior front - overall and in detail):








    Interior (right):





    Interior (left):





    Interior view to show the vest's original tailor's information:





    Overall view of the reverse:





    Internal view with the original material adjusted and pulled away in order to expose the heavy blue in color canvas like stiffening material:





    Another view of the front exterior with the veteran's annotated file card. Note the crude edge stitching:





    As mentioned above, here are a few open source photographs of Taliban fighters wearing similar modified vests to the example I have shown. Please keep in mind that the use of various types of vests are ubiquitous with insurgents in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Just a few quick Internet inquiries will demonstrate this. I have only included photographs of vest examples similar to the piece from/in my collection. In other words, modified pieces made from suit coat material, their matching vests, or other men's dress clothing. Photographic evidence of these specific variation improvised combat vests proved somewhat more difficult to locate. Below are some examples:





    Two views here of the same group of insurgents. Note the vests on the man in the cab of the "techincal" and the first fighter on the left. In the second pic the man on the left with suit coat vest and Kalashnikov is seen again.





    Additional photographs of these Taliban insurgent's vests in wear:














    Comments are always welcome. Thanks for looking .......




    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by nkomo on Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:10 am

    Very nice piece, Lance. I should have bid higher. Very Happy
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by airborne1968 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:25 pm

    Awesome vest! I have not heard of the Taliban having an "NCO Vest" especially since they're always being referred to as Commander or sub Commander or fighter at the lower levels. However, the idea that locals can identify an NCO of the insurgency by his clothing is an interesting idea worth further exploration. I'm also curious if this is specific to the Province or RC?

    Tom


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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by Mercenary25 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:04 pm

    EXCELLENT vest!
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by kriegsmodell on Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:11 pm



    airborne1968 wrote:Awesome vest! I have not heard of the Taliban having an "NCO Vest" especially since they're always being referred to as Commander or sub Commander or fighter at the lower levels. However, the idea that locals can identify an NCO of the insurgency by his clothing is an interesting idea worth further exploration. I'm also curious if this is specific to the Province or RC?

    Tom


    Thanks for your comments Tomas. I can not vouch for any of the "NCO Vest" language. That is how the piece was listed and that is also the information that was hand written on the file card from the veteran who captured it. This piece showed up at one of the flea markets near Fort Bragg and was grabbed up by a picker who bought it and sold same on-line. The person I purchased from said he would try to get back with the original seller and find out additional but I don't hold a lot of hope for much coming of that.

    All this said, I'm a "buy the piece not the story" guy and I do feel good about the vest. Just wish we knew more. Again thanks to all for the comments .....




    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by airborne1968 on Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:13 am

    I am exploring the validity of the vest (i.e. type of fabric, color, construction model, etc.). The pictures also tell the story as several of the individuals have matching vests. I hope the story is correct.

    Tom
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by kriegsmodell on Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:02 am



    airborne1968 wrote:I am exploring the validity of the vest (i.e. type of fabric, color, construction model, etc.). The pictures also tell the story as several of the individuals have matching vests. I hope the story is correct.

    Tom


    Thank you Sir! I agree that the insurgent photographs are helpful in that they show very similar garments in wear. If you need any further information or pics of the vest let me know.



    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by airborne1968 on Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:16 pm

    I talked toabout a half dozen locals and several vendors today about these vests. I found out there are basically two types of vests. There are ready made vests made at a factory in small, medium, and large; much like going to Walmart to buy one in a clear wrapper. These vests have plastic zippers and there are only 2-3 on the inside, non on the outside and the outside pockets are not real (meaning there is a seam but no pocket opening). The colors for these vests are pretty basic and they do not look to have the quality of a tailored vest. The other type of vest is a tailor made vest, where the buyer picks the fabric, gets measured and asks for specific cuts or additions (ie metal zipper pockets, buttons, buckles, etc.). The locals specifically pointed out the requests for metal zippers. So you have a nice tailored vest. I'm still looking into the fact if Taliban wear a specific pattern or if a pattern identifies an individual in the Taliban ranks. I'm going to sit down with two locals tomorrow to discuss this topic in greater detail tomorrow as I am very interested in it.

    BTW, three days ago, a local working on BAF walked by wearing a vest made of UK desert DPM camouflage material. I was not quick enough to offer to buy it off him on the spot. My loss and a big one at that but I'm looking for him every evening.

    Tom
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by airborne1968 on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:28 am

    airborne1968 wrote:I talked toabout a half dozen locals and several vendors today about these vests. I found out there are basically two types of vests. There are ready made vests made at a factory in small, medium, and large; much like going to Walmart to buy one in a clear wrapper. These vests have plastic zippers and there are only 2-3 on the inside, non on the outside and the outside pockets are not real (meaning there is a seam but no pocket opening). The colors for these vests are pretty basic and they do not look to have the quality of a tailored vest. The other type of vest is a tailor made vest, where the buyer picks the fabric, gets measured and asks for specific cuts or additions (ie metal zipper pockets, buttons, buckles, etc.). The locals specifically pointed out the requests for metal zippers. So you have a nice tailored vest. I'm still looking into the fact if Taliban wear a specific pattern or if a pattern identifies an individual in the Taliban ranks. I'm going to sit down with two locals tomorrow to discuss this topic in greater detail tomorrow as I am very interested in it.

    BTW, three days ago, a local working on BAF walked by wearing a vest made of UK desert DPM camouflage material. I was not quick enough to offer to buy it off him on the spot. My loss and a big one at that but I'm looking for him every evening.

    Tom

    Well, the other day I showed the pics of the vest to several locals and this is what they knew about the vest. The style, based on the back strap with buckle, makes it an older design that is not common today. They all stated it was a type of vest designed and typically worn in the 60's and 70's. So, it more than likely came from an older individual. There was nothing about the vest they could identify that indicated it was specifically Taliban. This doesn't mean it isn't Taliban and I wouldn't discount it either since it is definitely from Afghanistan, the taliban wear any and all types of local clothing (including female burkahs) and could even apply towards a good 1980's Russia vs Muj display! They also said the additional zipper pockets were add ons based on personal preference because the shirts of the time didn't have breast pockets.

    The manufactured vest made today have plastic zippers and run from $15 to $55 depending on size and material. Tailor made vest are on the higher end of the scale.

    Again, an excellent find worthy in any collection.
    Tom
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by kriegsmodell on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:03 pm



    Tomas, I really can not thank you enough for all of the information you have uncovered and provided regarding this piece. These details have certainly added to my understanding and appreciation of the vest. I liked it before, I really like it now!! Thanks again .....



    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.

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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by drunkpunk19thGRU on Wed Feb 13, 2013 1:18 am

    kriegsmodell wrote:









    how many AK magazines can this vest hold? great item BTW kriegsmodell.



    regards,
    jake
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by airborne1968 on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:09 am

    This type of vest is not intended to hold magazines. However, since the zipper pockets are add ons by the owner, he may have chosen to make them deep enough to hold a mag. Since this item is meant for everyday wear, the mag in the AK is sufficient when simply walking around town or traveling to a meeting. When conducting a combat operation the insurgnet would likely wear a chest rig or pouch to carry more mags.
    Tom
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by kriegsmodell on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:07 pm

    Another photograph of a similar vest in wear by a captured insurgent fighter.  

    Also note the "Don't Tread on Me" patch worn by the NSW operator ......





    Photograph is open source, located on-line.


    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.

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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by JKin on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:47 pm

    If my memory is correct, that photo is from a training demonstration.
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by kriegsmodell on Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:56 pm

    JKin wrote:If my memory is correct, that photo is from a training demonstration.

    Interesting, thanks .....


    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by Iraqirg on Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:17 pm

    Very nice vest!
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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by Spy vs Spy on Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:55 am

    Very interesting thread you have here gents, thanks for sharing your information.
    Great vest Lance Wink

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    Re: Afghanistan Captured - Veteran Bring Back Taliban Improvised Vest

    Post by Torch03 on Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:49 pm

    Cool vest Lance

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