SF in Central Africa

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    warloch
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    SF in Central Africa

    Post by warloch on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:34 pm

    Hey guys. I though I'd share this with you. I was on yahoo news and found a picture of an SF guy in Central Africa. If you recall Obama sent in about 100 of them last october to try and take down the LRA which if you've seen the Kony 2012 video you know hasn't worked. Anyway, In this picture you can see this guy wearing what appears to be a modified M81 BDU with arm pockets and loop for insignia. I have never seen Army use M81 in anything but Crye Custom UBAC Shirts since the introduction of the ACU so this struck a chord with me. Thought it was cool, hope you like it. Add any information if you can.



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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by John Brown on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:37 pm

    Special Forces try to blend with the folks they're assisting . .
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    warloch
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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by warloch on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:40 pm

    Right but I would think that if they wanted to do that they would wear just plain old BDUs from back in the day not make custom ones.

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by JKin on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:42 pm

    Army SF using regular woodland BDUs is still extremely common. Below is another picture of some SF advisers in Uganda, and below that are some recent pics of some SF guys in Afghanistan with woodland BDUs.







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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by warloch on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:44 pm

    Huh very interesting. I have never seen that uniform before. Thanks for the nice pics!
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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by Nkomo on Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:24 pm

    Great reference photos, fellers. Good discussion too.

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by John Brown on Tue May 01, 2012 7:54 pm

    What I find interesting is that they're using modified BDUs over commercially available ACU-pattern garments such as the TruSpec TRU in M81 woodland or multicam . .



    I don't blame them, though. The ACU pattern for a certain style of combat, and the SF guys "dance to their own music" . .

    Another question is: If they're gonna use the BDU pattern, why not get them in multicam?

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by JKin on Wed May 02, 2012 5:05 am

    They are using woodland pattern because they want to use woodland pattern, not because the uniform is in traditional BDU cut. If they wanted to go with multicam they would use their issued Crye combat/field uniforms. Wearing modified BDU's that they already have is way cheaper than buying a TRU spec one in ACU cut.

    How is the ACU cut designed for a different style of combat as opposed to the traditional BDU cut?

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by John Brown on Wed May 02, 2012 5:52 am

    JKin wrote:They are using woodland pattern because they want to use woodland pattern, not because the uniform is in traditional BDU cut. If they wanted to go with multicam they would use their issued Crye combat/field uniforms. Wearing modified BDU's that they already have is way cheaper than buying a TRU spec one in ACU cut.
    Well, the BDU was phased out in 2005. Some SF guys have never been issued them. Your argument about "already having them" doesn't stand up for younger SF troops.

    Besides, they don't buy anything. They write a mission statement and have their supply guy order a few dozen.


    JKin wrote:How is the ACU cut designed for a different style of combat as opposed to the traditional BDU cut?
    ♟ The ACU is designed to be worn with the Army's issue body armor.
    ♙ BDUs are functional when worn with or without body armor (see next item)

    ♟ The ACU has useless chest pockets, and next-to-useless pockets on the biceps.
    ♙ BDUs have 4 usable pockets, and when transplanted to the arms, can be optimally placed for the owner's usage patterns.

    ♟ The ACU comes with WAAAAY too much velcro.
    ♙ Buttons don't wear out, don't collect dirt or other trash and they don't make any noise.

    ♟ The current ACUs are issued in a non-burning ripstop fabric for IED-induced burn injury resistance.
    ♙ BDUs are available in 100% cotton ripstop or 50/50 NyCo ripstop. These are a lot cooler where soldiers aren't facing IEDs.

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by JKin on Wed May 02, 2012 7:23 am

    Do you know for a fact that SF were never issued woodland BDUs after 2005? Are all the ones that they use overseas in places like Afghanistan private purchase?

    Ive heard of specific instances of SF guys buying their own kit on their own dime (Ive also heard that some of those purchases are tax deductable). But Id be inclined to think that woodland BDU's are a unit purchased/issued item considering how widespread their use still is. But I dont know for sure, and to be honest I really dont think it matters. They use them on a large scale in certain theaters of operations regardless of how they are acquired. Are you SF, or have you worked with SF by any chance?

    You do raise some good points though, in particular the last one.

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by John Brown on Wed May 02, 2012 9:01 am

    JKin wrote:Do you know for a fact that SF were never issued woodland BDUs after 2005?
    Nope. Just noting that they were phased out of the military system at that time.
    JKin wrote:Are all the ones that they use overseas in places like Afghanistan private purchase?
    Might be a unit purchase.

    JKin wrote:Are you SF, or have you worked with SF by any chance?
    I was an Army medic, stationed in Europe. My peers thought I was "crazy" because I was always volunteering for maneuvers. I was not "crazy", as I got to see all kinds of wonderful stuff on the government dime. I also got to work with a wide array of different units - including SF guys.


    I don't have to know anything about SF to know that the units today can order anything necessary from outside vendors (the Army has some "special" name for this) without those items being type-classified.

    Elite units have had this "special" arrangement far longer than it's been available to the regular army.
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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by kriegsmodell on Thu May 03, 2012 8:08 am



    JKin wrote:Do you know for a fact that SF were never issued woodland BDUs after 2005? Are all the ones that they use overseas in places like Afghanistan private purchase?


    Not sure how widespread but they are still being issued. I have a friend in 10th SFG(A) who earlier this year was unit issued two sets of Woodland BDUs.




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    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by warloch on Thu May 03, 2012 8:20 am

    Where us the 10th based out of now? I remember when my dad was with them we were in Fort Devons and later Bad Toelz, Germany.
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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by kriegsmodell on Thu May 03, 2012 8:23 am



    warloch wrote:Where us the 10th based out of now? I remember when my dad was with them we were in Fort Devons and later Bad Toelz, Germany.


    Fort Carson, Colorado.



    _________________
    "I looked up at the bunker in front of me and saw a khaki-uniformed NVA with a pith helmet, chest web gear, green Bata boots and an AK, Type 56, and no other identifying insignia. Then I shot him." -- Sergeant Tony "Fast Eddie" Anderson, RT Kansas, TF1AE, 1971

    "My God, where do we find these men?" - President George H. W. Bush commenting on 1st SFOD-Delta after the Operation Acid Gambit rescue of Kurt Muse.

    "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me." - Inscription on the dog tag resting on the flag-draped homeward bound casket of an American Special Opearations warrior killed in action in Afghanistan, July 2005. - Dick Couch - Chosen Soldier

    "Choosing to die resisting rather than live submitting they fled only from dishonor and to meet danger face to face." - Lieutenant General John F. Mulholland Jr, USASOC Fallen Soldiers' Memorial Ceremony, 25 May 2012.

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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by John Brown on Thu May 03, 2012 12:28 pm

    kriegsmodell wrote:

    JKin wrote:Do you know for a fact that SF were never issued woodland BDUs after 2005? Are all the ones that they use overseas in places like Afghanistan private purchase?


    Not sure how widespread but they are still being issued. I have a friend in 10th SFG(A) who earlier this year was unit issued two sets of Woodland BDUs.


    The question is: Were these BDUs 'issued' by the Army, or by a supply sergeant 10th SFG as a potential "mission requirement"?

    If the 10th SFG, I'm sure they have entire supply rooms full of uniforms given to them by budding camo makers, or older uniforms they've stocked up on (like the BDUs)

    The point is that the woodland BDU is no longer authorized nor issued by the U.S. military (but everyone knows the elite units wear what they want)
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    Re: SF in Central Africa

    Post by toasty13 on Sat May 05, 2012 5:56 pm

    John Brown wrote:
    JKin wrote:They are using woodland pattern because they want to use woodland pattern, not because the uniform is in traditional BDU cut. If they wanted to go with multicam they would use their issued Crye combat/field uniforms. Wearing modified BDU's that they already have is way cheaper than buying a TRU spec one in ACU cut.
    Well, the BDU was phased out in 2005. Some SF guys have never been issued them. Your argument about "already having them" doesn't stand up for younger SF troops.

    Besides, they don't buy anything. They write a mission statement and have their supply guy order a few dozen.


    JKin wrote:How is the ACU cut designed for a different style of combat as opposed to the traditional BDU cut?
    ♟ The ACU is designed to be worn with the Army's issue body armor.
    ♙ BDUs are functional when worn with or without body armor (see next item)

    ♟ The ACU has useless chest pockets, and next-to-useless pockets on the biceps.
    ♙ BDUs have 4 usable pockets, and when transplanted to the arms, can be optimally placed for the owner's usage patterns.

    ♟ The ACU comes with WAAAAY too much velcro.
    ♙ Buttons don't wear out, don't collect dirt or other trash and they don't make any noise.

    ♟ The current ACUs are issued in a non-burning ripstop fabric for IED-induced burn injury resistance.
    ♙ BDUs are available in 100% cotton ripstop or 50/50 NyCo ripstop. These are a lot cooler where soldiers aren't facing IEDs.


    he guys, they are issued what they want...i got a buddy who is an 18d who just got issued brand new bdu's and they offer them dcu's all the time with tags. quick thing for you guys. they wear what they want," no rules "

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